Saturday, June 16, 2012

What the rumors mean for Daemons

First off, I am going over all the rumors I've heard of, no matter how unlikely they are. There's a bunch of new ones over at Natfka, so you might want to look at those.

We'll start with Allies. This will bump Daemons, and every army except poor, poor Tyranids. There's several things Daemons would want from Chaos Marines- melta, Heavy weapons in general, and transports. (Note that bloodcrushers are infantry. This means you can put 8 in a rhino they steal from another unit) 

Good options look like Havocs, Sorcerers for psychic powers that Daemons lack and may need, depending on how 6th psychic powers pan out, and... anything that strikes your fancy.

Depending on how the allies chart pans out, it looks like they can get stuff from Tau. Broadsides, yay!
Power Weapon changes only hurt Daemons. AP3 power weapons means you'll have to find another way to deal with terminators than killing them with Bloodcrushers. :( And the 5++ they give is already standard on Daemons.
I hate AP3 power weapons. As if Marines needed another advantage over every other army.

Anyways. Moving on. There's quite a few rules that generally nerf vehicles, and that's very helpful. In short, be more careful with and/or don't bring soul grinders.

BS1 Reaction fire makes Flamers absolutely deadly. They can jump in, Flame, then when they get charged, Flame again. Nothing will live. ! Actually, Flamers may entirely replace Bloodcrushers, seeing as they just "ignore armor," so they can melt Terminators!
Bloodcrushers were always expensive anyways. Though I'll be sad to see them go.

5+ FNP makes Nurgle cry... unless you bring Epidemius! Then you'll still be saving on 3's once you kill enough models! Fun!

Jump Infantry getting one attack at I10 on the charge... not actually that helpful to Daemons. Furies still don't have power weapons, Winged DP's are still insanely expensive, Bloodthirsters still shouldn't be fighting infantry, and Keepers of secrets don't fly, and just have all their attacks at I10.

Overall, I think Daemons will be unintentionally helped by 6th, mostly via the general vehicle nerfs, but also flamers being death machines.

at least, if the rumors are all true. Which is doubtful. But the recent ones seem to hold water.

Comments (11)

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Actually I think Bloodcrushers can't go into transports of any type, the current Lord on Juggernaut in the C:CSM cannot ride in a rhino or anything.
2 replies · active 668 weeks ago
As well as my interpretation of the allies thing. I don't think it means you can mix and match armies together, but when you play 2v2 if your friend brings a certain army yours can mesh well or not with theirs.
unless they FAQ it, nowhere in Codex: Chaos Daemons does it say they can't get into transports.
And I agree on how allies may work.
They are not letting you pick units from another book. The allies thing is for team games like in Fantasy almost certainly.

A rumor a couple days ago said power weapons are AP 2. It's pretty contradictory, but my money is on AP2 for power weapons. Ignoring armor saves has always been the point.

Flamers will get shot to death once they hit the table just like they always do. Especially if the rumor about snap fire in reaction to deep strike is true. Do you think anyone would be silly enough to charge them when they go down so easily to bolter fire?
3 replies · active 667 weeks ago
Apparently we run flamers differently. Try putting them down outside of LoS, or behind a scary CC unit (bloodcrushers), they're fast enough to pop out next turn and flame/bolt something.
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dave stevedave · 668 weeks ago

See, I don't see the point in dropping them next to crushers since crushers can handle anything flamers can. I don't want the units near the crushers annihilated, I want to charge them, preferably in a multi-assault and game it so the unit holds until the enemy turn, then wipe them out and move on to the next thing.

The trouble with Flamers is that they are good at taking out the exact same stuff the as the rest of the army, and they're in competition with Crushers, which are five times more durable, and far more killy for five points more, and fiends, which are faster and more versatile (and also more durable).

I for one do not buy the power weapons to AP3 rumor. The whole point of power weapons is to ignore armor saves. They are the counter to terminators. Everything has a counter. If cover and FnP are getting nerfed to 5+, why would a 2+ armor save be made nearly indestructible to anything besides plasma or a demolisher cannon? Deathwing armies and Grey Knight paladins would be totally unstoppable.
About AP3 power weapons: I pray the rumor is false, and it would unbalance terminators immensely- but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. It seems GW likes to add rules for the sake of adding rules.

The reason I drop flamers with crushers is precisely because they target the same models. Flamers can weaken a tough unit, like, say, a 10-man squad of Paladins, and make the combat more one-sided for the Bloodcrushers.

And I think Flamers are strictly better than Fiends. Fiends may be faster, but flamers have a better threat range. Fiends have a threat range of 19-24, Flamers with Warpfire have 30", with Bolt 36", and with Breath 12-18(Breathing at 20 is only hitting one model, hardly threatening)

Flamers are more versatile than any other Daemon Elite. They can kill Guardsmen or Xenos at range with Warpfire, they can kill AV10-12 at range with Bolt, or damage any vehicle up close with Breath, or annihilate elite infantry up close with Breath.
Know what gets much better for daemons if the assault rules for vehicles are true? Auto-include, perhaps?

Screamers
1 reply · active 668 weeks ago
yes. I got a couple boxes recently and they seem like the best buy I've made in a while.
The biggest bump will go to Tzeentch (flamers, jump infantry, enemy vehicles), the biggest nerf to Khorne and the biggest nothing at all to Slaanesh. As usual.
Though I suspect this will mean Epidemus or bust for all things Nurgle. Boosting FnP from 5+ to 3+ is huge by itself, but more important is the fact that his 20+ ability just doubled in worth. It does not make all attacks count as powerweapons, as I though in the beginning, these attacks are explicitly stated to ignore ALL armor saves. Hillariously, this makes Plaguebearers better at TEQ-busting than even Bloodcrushers.
1 reply · active 668 weeks ago
that is massively amusing.

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